‘Different visions and different pathways’

As questions begin wrapping up, David Speers asked each leader:

Would it really be a disaster for the country, or is it political hype, if the other guy won?

Anthony Albanese responded first, saying Peter Dutton had “taken his party to a more conservative bent that it has ever been”:

I think there are very different values that we have. I can have a private discussion with Peter and call him round to the office and he does so regularly. And my office is open to every member of parliament. But I don’t take this personally. I have a very different view of Australia and I think that Peter has taken his party to a more conservative bent that it has ever been. And I want very much to be able to continue the work that our government has been able to achieve.

Dutton responded, agreeing they each have “different visions and different pathways”:

The reason the prime minister is running a scare campaign at the moment [because’ he doesn’t want to talk about the reality of the last three years which has been a failure for our country … I have a vision where we can run our economy successfully so we can help people up and provide support to them and to keep our country safe.

PM says neither side of politics has done enough for Indigenous Australians

David Speers pointed out the fact that neither leader has visited an Indigenous community so far in this campaign.

Anthony Albanese said that “neither side of politics has done well enough for First Nations people.”

That’s just a fact, and that’s something that breaks my heart.

The PM said that after the referendum he went to Garma and committed to economic empowerment, pointing to a number of initiatives.

Has Labor now moved on from the voice, treaty and truth telling completely? Albanese responded:

We accept the decision that was made, David. We put forward a proposition that was asked for. We took up the gracious request of First Nations people, made at Uluru, in 2017.

Albanese says no need for Aukus contingency plans

Anthony Albanese said there was no need for contingency plans around Aukus, and that the deal is “in the interests of both Australia and the US, and the UK as well”.

What is extraordinary is a questioning of that [it] does nothing to advance Australia’s national interests. The important thing about international relations is that you shouldn’t try to score domestic political points through it.

Peter Dutton jumped in and accused Labor of “cannibalising” defence spending, but the PM rejected this:

It’s complete farce, nonsense. We have increased defence spending by $57bn. We had a defence strategic review … We’ve had serious discussions with the US, going back to the Biden administration, about critical minerals, the role it plays in industry, and we have engaged constructively.

And it doesn’t assist to try to score a political point on something that we backed when the Morrison government came up with this proposal.

Dutton says he could have achieved a different outcome on tariffs

Peter Dutton has previously said he could have got a deal with Donald Trump over tariffs. No other leader has managed this – how would he pull the deal off?

Dutton argued that the Coalition did this “in the 45th presidency when president Trump was first elected.”

We were able to negotiate as a government then an outcome where Australia was exempt … We were able to leverage relationships.

Does the Coalition have a stronger relationship with the administration than Labor? Dutton replied:

I think we have the ability, as we demonstrated before, to talk to the administration … We demonstrated it in the first presidency that we’re able to get an exemption when other countries weren’t …

We have people in Washington who have worked for Coalition governments, people who have worked for the Australian government. I think there is the ability to do a deal.

Leaders asked if they trust Xi Jinping

We’ve now moved on to another world leader – the Chinese president Xi Jinping.

Anthony Albanese gave the same response, saying: “I have no reason not to, either.”

In terms of the discussions we have had as one-on-one discussions have been important … It’s in Australia’s national interest to have a good economic relationship with China. We have different political systems.

Peter Dutton said he strongly believes in the relationship Australia has with Xi “for the reasons the prime minister outlined”. Does he trust him? Dutton responded:

Again, I spoke to him across the table. I haven’t done business with him and shaken hands and seen whether somebody has honoured that deal. I don’t have any reason to distrust.

Anthony Albanese is doubling down, saying this is the second example of the “failures that we have seen of diplomacy and of mature responses to international issues just during this campaign” from Peter Dutton.

When president [Donald] Trump made the announcement that every single country in the world will be hit with tariffs, the alternative prime minister suggested that we should put defence and our defence relationship with the US on the bargaining table. And it took John Howard to intervene to point out how unwise that would be.

Albanese says cost of not acting on climate change is ‘severe’

Answering the same question, Anthony Albanese said “the science is very clear” on climate change.

It doesn’t mean that every single weather event is because of climate change. It does mean the science told us the events would be more extreme and they’d be more frequent. That is what we are seeing playing out. Whether it be increased bushfires, flooding, extreme weather events that are having an impact.

The PM said that these increasing weather events are “one of the costs” to the economy by not acting on climate change.

[The costs of] not being a part of the global solution are severe.

When will energy bills come down?

Anthony Albanese has been asked when energy bills will come down.

He pointed to Labor’s renewables plan, and honed in on gas:

Peter raised gas. Gas is $13, it was $30 when we came to office. $13 is cheaper than $30.

As for when bills will come down, the PM said that “what we need do is to roll out renewables”.

Make sure there’s energy security, make sure it’s backed up by batteries, by hydro and by gas. That’s what all the private sector is backing and investing in. Not using taxpayers’ money to fund something that they never put forward the entire time they were in office.

Would the Coalition override local communities and state governments on nuclear?

If local communities and farmers say no, and state governments say no, to nuclear, what happens? Would a Coalition government override them?

Peter Dutton said the “commonwealth has powers [and] we can exercise those powers if need be”.

We can work with the state governments. In South Australia, the South Australian premier has been very clear of his support for nuclear. There’s many figures in the union movement and in the Labor party have as well.

Dutton said the Coalition would “work to find consensus”.

If we can’t find consensus, we will do what’s in country’s best interest.

Anthony Albanese chimed in and said even the private sector wouldn’t support nuclear:

Every single state and territory government, none will support it … That is not what is important. The most important thing is, the private sector won’t back it.

Other countries wish they more solar and wind resources, Albanese says

Staying with nuclear, Anthony Albanese picked up on Peter Dutton’s reference to other countries who have implemented nuclear, and said they “wish” they had the natural resources Australia does. The PM says:

What Keir Starmer has to deal with is the blow out in the costs of the Hinkley nuclear plant. It is now up to $90bn for one plant. It is coming in 14 years late and being built in a country that has a nuclear industry, by the world’s largest nuclear energy company, in France.

That shows exactly the problem and Keir Starmer wishes, as do so many people, that they had the access with the solar resources, with the wind resources, with the space that we have here in Australia, to have renewables backed by gas, backed by hydro and backed by batteries. That’s the future.

What do the leaders want to be remembered for?

The prime minister was asked what is one big change he would like to be remembered for. Anthony Albanese pointed to affordable childcare, and said:

We want the universal provision of affordable childcare so that it is as natural to have your child have access to childcare as it is to have access to a public school.

Peter Dutton was asked the same question, and pointed to creating an east coast gas reserve, and then went to nuclear:

We go beyond [gas], as you know, to deal with what firms up the renewables as we go forward, which is a vision that Bob Hawke had for our country, John Howard shared and I strongly believe in, a zero emissions nuclear technology, embraced by the Labour party in the United Kingdom, by the French, by many countries.

Albanese warns of cuts under Coalition to fund nuclear reactors

Anthony Albanese then interjected on this topic:

That is before they get to the $600bn they need for their nuclear reactors … ‘Vote for me, trust us, we will tell you after the election.’

Last time the cuts came to health, education, $50bn out of hospitals, $30bn out of schools. That is why a decade later, we’re still trying to fix and repair the damage that was done by that 2014 budget.

PM defends the fact energy rebates aren’t means tested

Anthony Albanese was asked about the energy rebates Labor is promising, and why these aren’t means tested. He responded:

Because of the way it is delivered through the energy companies, you either give it to everyone or just to concession card holders. We understand a whole lot of working people need that assistance in cost of living. That is why this is our third increase in energy rebates that we’ve put forward, that’s why we have done it.

Would the leaders support longer rental agreements?

Asked if he would be willing to give renters certainty with longer rentals, Peter Dutton said this was an issue for the states.

I’m happy to support sensible reforms. As you pointed out, it’s for the states. The focus on this election who is better to fix the housing crisis this government created.

Would Anthony Albanese put pressure on the states to give renters more certainty? He responded:

We delivered a renters’ rights program in agreement with states and territories that improved the rights of people renting and, in addition, increased maximum rental assistance by 45% in this term.

He took aim at the Coalition’s super for housing policy and said this “does nothing for supply” and would “bid up prices as it did in New Zealand”.

Albanese says Labor didn’t commission modelling on negative gearing

Anthony Albanese said Peter Dutton’s suggestion that the housing crisis is something that developed in the last two years is “nonsense”.

Everyone watching this program knows that this has been developing for a long period of time. We have not had enough homes been built. The former government did not bother to have a housing minister for half the time they were in office. What we’ve done since we came to office, is look towards the big issue which is supply.

Asked why Labor isn’t willing to touch negative gearing or the capital gains tax discount, the PM said:

The experts say that what that potentially [would] do is is diminish supply, not increase it. That’s why the key to fixing the housing issues is supply.

Dutton pointed out that Labor had done modelling on this. Asked if modelling was done, the Albanese answered:

It certainly wasn’t commissioned by us to do so.

Dutton said this was public information and accused the PM of having “a problem with the truth”.

Watch more on this topic here:

Albanese says he’s ‘optimistic about Australia’s future’ in opening remarks

The PM began by saying he feels “optimistic about Australia’s future if we seize the opportunities that are right in front of us”.

We have inflation that is down, real wages that are up. We have unemployment that is very low at just 4.1% and interest rates have started to fall – they started to rise before the last election. But we know there is much more to do …

Anthony Albanese pointed to strengthening Medicare and fee-free Tafe, and said:

We know we live in difficult times. I am very confident that with the right leadership we can see it through.

Dutton gives opening remarks

Peter Dutton won the coin toss and is first to give his opening remarks. He begins with a common Coalition quip – “are you better off today than you were three years ago?”

As I have spoken to thousands of Australians, young families, pensioners, people in small businesses, it’s obvious to me that people don’t feel better off.

People have faced an existential cost-of-living crisis. People have seen food prices go up by 30%. Their mortgages have gone up on 12 occasions.

Our plan is to get our country back on track to help young Australians realise the dream of home ownership again, to make sure we can help manage the economy so we can get inflation down.

Tasmanian Labor drops its own diss track following Coalition’s ‘Leaving Labor’

Before we jump into the debate, let’s go to Tasmania, where the campaign diss track madness is (unfortunately) continuing.

In case you missed it: on Monday, the Liberals released a “diss track” titled Leaving Labor – a homage to the viral feud between rap rivals Kendrick Lamar and Drake. The lyrics were critical of Labor’s record on the cost of living, claiming the economy was “looking a mess” and that “eggs and cheese” cost $100.

Now, the Tasmanian Labor branch has hit back with a diss track of its own, shared on TikTok and Instagram. It started with:

Your diss track was mid, why’d we have to wait three years for it? It’s election time now, and you’re still full of … No plan, no clue, just more of the same.

If you’re dying to listen to the rest of the track, you can do so below:

Pro-Palestine protesters gather outside ABC studios ahead of debate

Pro-Palestinian protesters have been gathering outside the ABC studios in Parramatta, ahead of tonight’s leaders debate.

Here are some photos that have been filtering through from AAP:

Experts question whether tonight’s showdown will shift votes

Anthony Albanese was judged the winner of the first leaders’ debate, a Sky News-hosted people’s forum in which a crowd of average voters posed questions on topics ranging from housing and the fuel excise to GP costs and the Gaza conflict.

Leaders’ debates are a feature of each campaign, billed – particularly by the host broadcaster – as make-or-break moments capable of turning the campaign. But campaign veterans have differing opinions as to how decisive the set-piece events actually are.

For more on this, you can read Dan Jervis-Bardy’s story below:

Both leaders arrive at ABC Parramatta studio for the debate

Both Anthony Albanese and Peter Dutton have arrived at the ABC studio in Parramatta, ready for tonight’s debate.